Harley Davidson

[admin]

Is anyone an import convert from the Harley World
Posted by: JoRu on Aug 24, 06 11:30:44 am

[admin]

Hey, why "either or" when some are lucky enough to own and ride both
Posted by: Buzz Kanter on Aug 24, 06 6:29:46 pm

[admin]

Being on staff here has certainly changed the way I look at bikes. Riding all the different brands as often as I do has really blurred the lines between metric and american. It's not like a bike brand is a football team that seeks my undying loyalty. That's just dumb. There are too many great bikes out there to ride, and this brand loyalty non-sense would just keep me from enjoying all of them. As far as I'm concerned, if it's got a motor, it's cool.
Posted by: Shooter Bob on Aug 29, 06 5:58:33 am

[admin]

Any bike is better than no bike. But I still don't get the Harley-loyal mentality when there are so many better, cheaper bikes to choose from. It's the same mentality that beckons people to wear logos on their clothing... and PAY to do so.
Posted by: RidnHer on Aug 29, 06 2:04:42 pm

[admin]

Dad would answer this question with "I enjoy the feel and style of a Harley, but if I've gotta ride through Hell, I'm taking a Honda so I'm sure to make it back".
Posted by: shoe on Aug 29, 06 3:33:53 pm

[admin]

For many many years, HD has been selling a lifestyle while the imports have been selling motorcycles.

Because of television and the explosive popularity of motorcycles, a sizable portion of the industry is now supported by people who will never ride or own a motorcycle. These people buy hats, T-shirts, leathers and products with logos on them and there's big money in this market segment.

Harley Davidson makes more profit selling "Licensed Products" than they ever will selling motorcycles.

The imports make their money selling motorcycles.

American bikes have a greater "percieved" mystique that is really nothing more than clever marketing.

Brand loyalty? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Posted by: Shooter Bob on Aug 30, 06 7:06:44 am

[admin]

I like this guy^
Posted by: shoe on Aug 31, 06 9:02:55 am

[admin]

How long do you think this "perception" will last? Back in my parent's generation, people used to buy american-made cars because they were being loyal to their country. Eventually, people caught on that the imports were not only cheaper, but better-made. I feel like that will happen with the metric motorcycle market too.

But then again, a lot of dumb Americans voted for G.W. Probably the same people that walk around as free billboards for a brand of motorcycle that they don't even own.
Posted by: RidnHer on Aug 31, 06 10:44:44 am

[admin]

Society these days pretends to think for us. Why go through all the trouble of truly living a lifestyle when you can just go out and buy the appearance of one?

I won't roast anyone's politics or claim that some people are less intelligent by virtue of the brand they ride, but many people do things because they've seen it somewhere before and it caught them at the right time.

Working in the industry as I do, it has taken a while to shed some of my old ideas and come to the conclusion that all brands have something to offer. They just go about the process of schlucking their wares differently. Apparently it works. We truly live in the golden age of motorcycling where there is something for everyone. You'd think we'd figure out how to stop fighting about it by now.
Posted by: Shooter Bob on Sep 2, 06 2:39:01 pm

[admin]

Ride Metric.
Posted by: RoadBike Trish on Sep 13, 06 2:42:36 pm

[admin]

Just Ride!
Posted by: Shooter Bob on Sep 15, 06 8:35:45 am

[admin]

Shooter Bob. After reading your previous posts I offer (with a grin) a new handle for you. The”Eclectic Metric”. :)
Posted by: Gus B on Sep 15, 06 12:46:49 pm

[admin]

I bought in to the "Harley Mentality" a few years back...only it was a 2001 Ford Harley Edition F-150 Pick-up Truck. It sure was nice looking. It was black, and shiny....nice leather seats, and that blaring Harley badge on each front fender...not to mention all of the other Harley logos and branding all over the interior. Well, I finally came to the realization that I felt silly everytime someone complimented me on my "Harley" Truck, and asked me what I rode on 2 wheels...my reply was,"I'm still saving for a bike, I figured I'd start with the truck..." Well, the truth was that I wanted a bike, but I wasn't financially ready, especially after paying such a premium for my Harley Truck. The plan was to have my truck and a nice matching "Fat-Boy". I ditched the plan. I didn't need to spend thousands more for the name. I sold my truck, bought a Dodge Ram (with the Hemi Engine) and bought a 2001 Yamaha Roadstar. I am enjoying the best of both worlds. A nice clean truck for work, and hauling the family around, and a beauty of a bike purchased with low miles, which I have enjoyed for the last year. I wouldn't dream of selling the bike. It's reliable, has gobs of power, and the fit and finish is second to none. It doesn't have the "Harley" name, but it also doesn't have the price tag associated with it. I like Harleys, but I don't find it necessary to spend more for a name.
A few Harley guys tried to make the argument that Harleys retain their value. Well I would hope so...after spending $20,000 + for a bike one would expect a decent return on their investment. But for me, I'd rather spend $7000.00 for a perfectly good machine, with better performance, more engine displacement (1600 cc's) and comparable if not better fit and finish. I have invested about $3,000.00 in extras and I still feel like I am way ahead of the game. To each his own. I prefer Metric with money left over to a name and a "lifestyle" or Mystique with monthly payments.
Posted by: Tony D. on Nov 27, 06 9:25:15 pm

[admin]

I never thought of a motorcycle of as investment. If I made a $20,000 investment I don't think I would ride it down the street where some dumb burro talking on a cell phone could reduce its value to $0. For investments, I'll stick with an IRA, TD Waterhouse, Smith Barney, Wall Street or whatever.
Posted by: Vicrider on Dec 5, 06 1:27:52 pm

[admin]

i ride a 2000 kawasaki vulcan classic since getting this bike i have met a number of harley riders and have been behind a few a stop lights and the amount of shaking they have when idling and how much smoother my bike is. i do like the sound of the harley but seeing how much effort is required to maintain them i like riding and not always working on it. i got my bike in january have put 8000 miles on it and all i have done is service the bike 3 times and enjoyed riding. while living in california i do enjoy riding in the winter [o wait still waiting for the bad weather] i do generally ride each day.
Posted by: myredmustang on Dec 9, 06 2:23:39 am

[admin]

All motorcycles have good and bad characteristics. I started riding an import back in 1962. A Vespa scooter. My first "real" motorcycle was a 305 Yamaha. Since that time I have owned Honda's, Kawi'z, BMW's, and Harleys. I currently have 2 1/2 motorcycles. A '03 Road Star, '99 1200C HD Sportster and a work-in-progress Replica of a 60's era HD XLR race bike. The Road Star and XL 1200 each have their limitations and attributes. One of the limitations is the size of the gas tanks. If the Road Star had a 10 gallon tank I could go 500 miles between stops. If the XL 1200 had a 10 gallon tank I could go 460 miles between stops. They are both good for commuting (especially since gas prices have risen) 50 miles a day to and from work. Both are excellent cruiser bikes. Am I a convert? Not exactly. If I had a larger garage I would probably have 2 or 3 more different ROAD BIKES (how's that for a plug?) I wouldn't have a Gold Wing, but; I would have a Road King, FJR1300, ST1300, 1200GT/RT, Victory Vegas, and a 'Busa thrown in for extra measure. Am I "Brand Loyal"? Nope, just an enthusiast. Sorry for the long rant.
Posted by: pikepass on Dec 9, 06 11:50:22 am

[admin]

I made believe I had a Harley. Then took all the money I would have spent on logo'd underwear, socks, etc. and went out and bought my Yamaha V Star Classic. I love it just as much as the looks on my Harley riding friends faces when I tell them that.
Posted by: beerwizza on Dec 9, 06 5:50:28 pm

[admin]

I recently bought a new Dyna Super Glide but I own nothing else that says "H-D" on it. I refuse to buy any of that stuff because I'm just not into paying to advertise for someone else. I love the bike but I can buy all sorts of jackets, bags, gloves and boots for a lot less money simply because they're not brandishing corporate logos.

On thing I must admit though, a Harley dealer is one of the few places where you will find good quality XXXL leather gloves in stock!

Just because I own an American V twin doesn't mean I'm a "Harley Guy." I'm a rider. That's all.
Posted by: Shooter Bob on Dec 9, 06 6:06:29 pm

[admin]

^^^gasps,,, I didn't think you were allowed to do that Bob! Hell, Dad made sure you're festooned in Bar and Shields down to your jammies! The cool kids won't know you're cool too in the grocerie store!
Posted by: shoe on Dec 11, 06 3:48:05 pm

[admin]

My father owned, bought, sold and traded Harleys and Indians before he went off to WWII and for several yeara fter he came back. He made enough money buying and selling them that he was able to start a business of his own. He started a wholesale food business. He traded his last Harley for enough cinder blocks to build a building large enough to house the business. He built the building himself. I thought that was the norm for a long time. When I found out how special his behavior was, I grew to respect him more for choosing his own path and sticking to it.

When he sold the business, he did not buy a bike for a while. In time, he bought a Honda 750, it was more dependable than his Harleys. he rode that until he was to feeble to pick the machine up when it fell over, he was over 75 when he sold the bike. He died two years ago, and I still miss him.

The sound af an electraglide reminds me of him, but my memories of him are on a Honda, I bought a Kawasaki, go figure.
Posted by: Justarider on Dec 15, 06 11:10:49 pm

[admin]

It all comes down to personal choice. HD riders only want to ride HD. BMW riders only want to ride BMW.

Ford or Chevy, BMW or Audi, Ferrari or Lambroghini all mean something to someone.

I have a Honda, Harley and just put money down on a Ducati and a KTM. If Indian ever gets going again, I just might get one of those. Each one provides something the other does not.

At the end of the day, I really don't care what I am riding, so long as I am riding. If what you ride matters more than riding, please don't ride with me.
Posted by: Revelstoker on Jan 21, 07 12:01:15 am

[admin]

I just serviced a new Dyna Street Bob and it is a great ride. Fast, agile and well mannered. Fit and Finish are standard Harley, (hardware store fasteners rusting after a few months) but that's part of the charm. Nice bike.
Posted by: shoe on Jan 23, 07 1:34:48 pm

[admin]

I have a beemer, a Vulcan and a Harley and they are all cool bikes. When I want to feel "bad" I ride the Harley. I never understood the "Harley" thing until I started riding one - it's just a feeling and a sound that you don't get from the "nice" bikes. I'm ready to add a sport bike to the mix. I love the looks I get from people, being 50 and female and riding on by....
Posted by: texaseve on Feb 21, 07 10:14:59 am

[High Plains Drifter]

:cool: I ride a metric bike because I DO ride. I know lots of Harley riders. Most (not all) think a long ride is 50 miles. I think a short ride is 300. When you ask most of them if they rode last weekend they chime in, "Oh yeah!" But when you ask them WHERE they rode, you find out that they spent two hours getting on all of their cool HD leather gear (and never a helmet), then only rode across town. What in the world is fun about riding in heavy traffic? When these guys finally do go on a couple hundred mile ride, they bring along someone in a "chase-truck" to haul the broken bike(s) back home. Where's the fun in that? I put more miles on my bike on a weekend than most of the Harley riders I know put on in an entire year. Now admittedly, there are a few of my Harley buddies who take pretty good care of their bikes and don't hesitate to hit the open road. But they truly are a minority.
It's the journey, not the destinantion, that makes the trip an adventure.
Ride Safe!

[05 V Star]

I ride metric because I can't see spending the big bucks for a bike that is no better than mine. That is true even though I have a relative pretty high up in the Harley hierarchy who can get me a 10% discount. Neither she nor her husband have ever ridden a motorcycle as far as I know. I have another relative who is Harley through and through. He rides alot and his bike hasn't broken down. He tells me I should have bought a Harley for the resale value. I point out that since neither he nor I will probably sell our rides until we are too old to care, the resale value is irrelevant. Since his cost twice what mine did, I think I'll still be ahead.

[barry1482]

I ride metric for the same reason. It seems like my friends that have Harley's have bikes that spend a lot of time at the Harley shop, of course they aren't stock either. I can jump on my 12 year old Honda and off I go! I don't need a brand name to identify who I am I just want to ride. My wife says this bike has to last me for a while yet so resale value never entered into the picture!

[Shooter Bob]

Very cool story.

[robdob57]

I had a AMF 1000 sportster for about 2 wks and somebody stole it,have ridden metric ever since,prob always will.

[bonehead]

:cool: I ride a metric bike because I DO ride. I know lots of Harley riders. Most (not all) think a long ride is 50 miles. I think a short ride is 300. When you ask most of them if they rode last weekend they chime in, "Oh yeah!" But when you ask them WHERE they rode, you find out that they spent two hours getting on all of their cool HD leather gear (and never a helmet), then only rode across town. What in the world is fun about riding in heavy traffic? When these guys finally do go on a couple hundred mile ride, they bring along someone in a "chase-truck" to haul the broken bike(s) back home. Where's the fun in that? I put more miles on my bike on a weekend than most of the Harley riders I know put on in an entire year. Now admittedly, there are a few of my Harley buddies who take pretty good care of their bikes and don't hesitate to hit the open road. But they truly are a minority.
It's the journey, not the destinantion, that makes the trip an adventure.
Ride Safe!

I gotta say AMEN to that.....I bought my V-Star new, have added about $1200 of trinkets and such and I'm still less than a new HD. I got a bike that is me, starts every time I walk up to it, and have confidence it always will. The HD thing is all about ; 1. resale....cuz it's a fad with many; 2. The name tag.....cuz it's about, "hey, look what I have" with others; and 3. "Keeping up with the Jones" with others, it says "I have money". I know a lot of HD riders, the majority fit in one of thse 3 catagories, a few, and these are the guys I like best, ride them for the history of it, the enigma of that history and because it's who they are. Gimme the dirty leather wearing, rat bike riding, don't care what you think about me cuz this is who I am riders any day. These days it's the trendy, designer clothes, name tag adoration types that are giving us, as riders, a bad name. Just my opinion. :cool:

[Shooter Bob]

Gimme the dirty leather wearing, rat bike riding, don't care what you think about me cuz this is who I am riders any day.

You must have seen me ride by bonehead. I ride a 2007 Dyna Street Glide. It's the base model. No bling. Stock exhaust. Solo seat. I ride about 15,000 miles a year and don't care what anyone else wants to ride.

When H-D produced the new Dyna with it 6 speed tranny, fuel injected 96 c.i. motor and 49mm fork tubes, I was sold. No other engine sounds like it, (even with it's stock exhaust) and no other engine feels like it when you're riding. In my opinion, H-D finally produced a bike worthy of my dollars. I was stuck between a Meanstreak and a Roadstar Warrior, but the price on the Dyna made it a no-brainer for me. You'd be amazed how cheap they are when you buy the base model.

There are a lot of great bikes out there which all have their attributes. My Dyan is fast enough, handles well enough, is comfortable enough, and inspires me to ride every chance I get. Did I mention the motor sounds cool as hell?

[bonehead]

Gotta admit, it is an addictive sound ;) But then, almost any bike sound is for me anyway :) I even still like the sound of playing cards in spokes of a bicycle............HHHMMMMM.........wonder if I can do that to my Star? :cool:

[Shadow Shack]

I fell for the base model Dyna as well. I never paid much attention to them in their prior generations but the new improvements made me look again. Now if our dealer would just come down in price a bit I'd really consider buying one, but I don't feel that a MSRP $12K bike should be $16K (+ tax/etc) out of my pockets.

Other problem with that bike is it seems to be a "keeper" model, as I rarely if ever find one available in the used market. Tells me it truly is a rider's bike.

[BH121869]

For many many years, HD has been selling a lifestyle while the imports have been selling motorcycles.

Because of television and the explosive popularity of motorcycles, a sizable portion of the industry is now supported by people who will never ride or own a motorcycle. These people buy hats, T-shirts, leathers and products with logos on them and there's big money in this market segment.

Harley Davidson makes more profit selling "Licensed Products" than they ever will selling motorcycles.

The imports make their money selling motorcycles.

American bikes have a greater "percieved" mystique that is really nothing more than clever marketing.

Brand loyalty? hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
Posted by: Shooter Bob on Aug 30, 06 7:06:44 am

I have rode for over 40 years and had 19 bikes so for. I've enjoyed most of them and had 11 that were from Japan and three from England. I finally realized that my friends that rode Harleys could ride them a few years and sell them for what they paid. I rode a 89 sportster for three years and got what I paid for it. I like all bikes and have mostly owned Hondas, great bikes too, but now I have two Harleys. One is for touring and one just for fun. I like the attention that I get when I'm on them that I rarely got on the others.
As for price, they are about the same as say my last Honda shadow cost as much as a new Sprotster 883. Except in the long run say five or ten years will be worth spare parts and the Sportster probably what I paid. The sportster has been around for 58 years and still my favorite scoot. I get 58 to 60 MPG around town on the 1200S model the shadow got 42 at best. My first two sportsters got about 55 mpg. I too do not understand the people wearing the Harley name on their bodys or shirts. I still have Honda t shirts I'm happy to wear on any bike. My 89 Sportster had Japan stamped on the bottom tripple tree and inside the air cleaner. People still actually think they are made here. Assembled here but not made here. People are nuts. They go out and buy a bike way too big for them with way more power than they will ever be able to use. Why? Good question for another day.

[Royal Star Robin]

i went from a harley to am bmw r1100rt to a royal star . now i have a 93 suzuki vx800 and just bought an 07 harley softail.....i ride anything thats in my garage

[olds_cool63]

There was a time when I felt there were HD's and nothing else. With what I know about bikes now, I can't see myself ever owing a HOG. Even if my bro-in-law GAVE me one of his, I'd just sell it and get me another metric!

[pikepass]

I think I'll keep my 1200 Sportster AND Road Star. The Sportster never ceases to give me a grin when tearing up the highways and by-ways.

Pike
'03 Midnight Star
'99 1200C
'58-'07 XLR Clone (in the works) :D




There was a time when I felt there were HD's and nothing else. With what I know about bikes now, I can't see myself ever owing a HOG. Even if my bro-in-law GAVE me one of his, I'd just sell it and get me another metric![/QUOTE]

[bonehead]

I like the way Hd's look and the way they sound, what i don't like is what they have come to represent......MONEY !!! Every yuppie with a half way decent job goes out and buys a Harley. Then they ride it for a couple hours on the weekends (if the weather is just right) and spend the rest of their days telling people they own one. Got nothing against the ones that own and actually ride their Harleys, a lot of them don't care what you ride, just that you ride. There are still some out there though, most of them being the aforementioned types, that will look down their nose at you and often flat turn their backs on you the second you mention you ride a metric. That's usually when I ask them how long they been riding and how old they are. If their age is less than the amount of years I've been riding, it's my turn to walk away. :D Sorry, appears I got on a rant. :cool:

[bluebrutal49]

Speaking of which, I notice that many of the folks going to Sturgis haul their Harleys, I think that is a real comment on the HARLEY rider. Much better to be cool than to ride. It is a little embarassing to ride my Intruder every day wearing work gloves, whatever for a windbreaker, and redwing work boots, etc., and then see all the Harley people cruising around in their black stylish riding gear. Guess I dont get the "cool" deal.

[Shooter Bob]

There's nothing wrong with toting your bike on a trailer. Many times these people are travelling with their spouses who of course need to haul far more crap than could ever fit on a bike so, they need to bring the 4 wheeler. They're not a lower form of life or anything. They've just chosen to do things differently. Personally, I don't much care either way. The riding around Wyoming and the Black Hills is really terrific no matter how you choose to get there and enjoy it.

[Shadow Shack]

There's nothing wrong with toting your bike on a trailer.

True that, but the problem is 95% of them, as soon as the bike is off the trailer, hit the souvenier stand at the rally to buy their "I Rode Mine to the Rally" pins and patches. Then you have the ones that haul their touring bike 90 miles from Vegas to Laughlin and attempt to duck walk it in the stop and go traffic of the River RUn after buying said pins and patches. Or worse yet, the ones that live in the vast 20x30 mile area of Las Vegas that trailer their bikes downtown only to ride them the rest of the way to Las Vegas BikeFest, and buy the pins and patches.

So while there's nothing wrong with the trailering part, I have a bit of an issue with all the prancing and preening that usually follows. See my Laughlin River Run review remarks for one reason why:

http://www.roadbikemag.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1243

[MeanGene]

Metrics, to me use greater technology advancements. EFI, DOHC,water cooled, Mono-spring/shock-air suspension, 4-cylinder engines that rule in performance,(Hayabusa:cool:), engine designs, always changing, model to model year, sometimes better and sometimes not:(, but always pushing the design model. Quality of fit, very good. Metrics price's are very competive, when you consider approximately a 2 to 1 ratio in the price comparison. For what one H.D. retails for, you can buy 2 metrics. But, have admired the V-rod for some time and some of the H.D.'s are very good looking bikes. Better than ever, I have seen in my life time. (65yrs) S&S, RevTech, lots of others keep the old twin design improving, lots of enthusists, lots of spin-off Co's, thats the american-way. But really, it's more tradition than engineering science, V-rod being the exception. H.D. could compete, GM & Ford, about to lose #1 to Toyota. Where are your TV's,PC's,Camera's,ETC made and why?:o
I still like the H.D.'s, I am american, but using commom sense with my money, I can still ride within my budget and not have more money in my motorcycle than I have in my Ford F250. The other day one of my H.D. buddies needed repairs while we all were riding. Three of us were Kawasaki riders, we made our friend say "kawasaki" three times before we fixed his ride. His pride slighty humbled, we all laughed and went back to riding. :D

[Shadow Shack]

Actually there's a bit of irony to the "dinosaur" tech. If you compare the TC-88 to comparable sized metrics (the 1500 Vulcan Classic and Suzuki LC1500), the TC-88 outperforms both of the metrics in the 1/4 mile, even in Harley's most laden platform (Electra Glide Ultra Classic, boasting close to 200 pounds over the two metrics).

[MeanGene]

Yes, that is amazing. I would not beleive it without seeing, but it's possible.
My friend over in Jackson, Ms has 2 Harleys he keeps in his office garage suite. I always kid him about bringing my helmet and us going riding. Well one time after getting his network back-up, he said, did you bring your helmet? I said, yes, lets ride. One is a FLHX touring type and the other is a FXD older model, carbarated. I followed him out to the fish house on the FXD Dyna Super Glide, nice bike, rode easy, notice he was pulling way ahead. We blew by a traffic cop, I barely seen him, just rolling into the throttle, if he wanted us, we were "had" anyway(Longshot pipes blasting). After eating, we switched bikes, I was suprised, the EFI FLX bike would easly pull ahead of the Dyna, even with all the touring add on's(weight). Hey they really are good bikes, just an expensive investment. I feel proud they are made in U.S..
Friends remarried, says he wants to sell them. I am considering trading my Flordia time share for one. Then maybe I can closer study this phenomenon that is so popular right now.:D

[Shooter Bob]

Nothing is what it used to be, Are we supposed to demand that the new rider bid hommage to the old school rider because he's the real deal? Or do we just simply look for new ways to enjoy riding as the times change?

Personally, I'm really tired of all this brand loyalty crap. I'm tired of people telling others what a biker should or shouldn't be like. All activities will attract their share of morons and it's just something I choose to ignore.

If it's got a motor, it's cool. That's my feeling on this.

I enjoy riding with one or two other people at a time. That's all.

I'll ride any bike and find a way to enjoy it. They all have their positive attributes.

If someone needs help, I'll stop and help them regardless of their brand of choice, cheesey rally t-shirt, or proximity of their trailer.

There are so many great tings about motorcycling and we would all be better off to try and recognize them over the negative aspects.

[BackRoadRaser]

I have some guys at work who are hard core HD riders. I like all there bikes but I'm a Sport bike guy. Besides I could not take all the black clothing all the time. It gets HOT in that stuff.
Oh and as for resale.In 1984 I bought a 1982 Yamaha Seca 650.It was $1400.I rode it for twenty years. I sold it for $1000. I don't think I lost too much.:D

[Shadow Shack]

Yes, that is amazing. I would not beleive it without seeing, but it's possible.

MCN revealed that one not too long ago, I want to say circa 2003-04. I haven't seen any comparos since the newer big inch HD mills hit the scene, I somehow let my MCN subscription go shortly after I caught that bit.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________


Personally, I'm really tired of all this brand loyalty crap.

Apparently so is Honda. At least judging by their most uninspiring line-up in the past few years. Let's see...last year, they took a VTX1800R (which is an 1800S with cast wheels, or an 1800C with different pipes and fenders) and added a Hondaline windshield, saddlebag, and sissy bar to make a too little/too late Tourer model. And if that wasn't inspirational enough, they repeated that formula for 2008 with the 1300. I imagine by 2009 we'll see the same thing done with the 750 Aero. Whose five year old is in charge of these stunning new models anyway?

Looks like the 599 and 919 are out. Looks like the CBR125, 250 Hornet, CB500/500S, XL650V TransAlp, NT700 DeauVille, CB1300, etc etc etc still won't be arriving at our shores. Harley Davidson, Kawasaki, Suzuki, and Yamaha have the best and least costly (free) marketing tool available in the form of Honda, whose motto appears to be "We build the best bikes in the world, but we won't offer them to you. If you want what you really want, go see the other guys." The more I look at new Hondas, the more I find myself wanting something else.

Oh wait, here's something that might have worked in their favor. Honda announced in a press release that 2008 would be the 25th anniversary of the Shadow nameplate and would be recognizing it with a special event. Turns out a couple months later that special event was the press release announcing the cancelling of the 1100 Shadow line, two of the five remaining Shadow models (if you really want to count the VTX-ish 750 line as Shadows).

But wait, there's more...2008 is also the 60th Anniversary for Honda as a motorcycle company. Someone go kick the marketing guys awake over at Romper Room. Meanwhile, Honda has lost me as a returning customer. I bought seven of them in the past ten years and have no desire for another, unless I pick up some of the other (used) discontinued bikes down the road.

[Shooter Bob]

Apparently so is Honda.

OK, but I was speaking in terms of brand loyalty where it actually segregates us because of our preferences instead of enjoying the diversity now available.

[Shadow Shack]

Yeah I know....I was just going off on a "parallel tangent" LOL

Seriously though, there are many former Honda loyalists that have left Honda in recent years. I just don't get their strategy, canning model after model that outsells and outperforms that flagship cruiser of theirs that simply does not generate sales. Yet they still try (and fail) to get creative with marketing it. If Bill Gates had that kind of strategy, we'd still be surfing the internet via telephone modems (anyone remember those, where you put your phone reciever onto the modem?) using the latest version of Windows 3.1, and you'd be recieving this message sometime next week.

If I were running things, I'd bring back the Valkyrie in the GL1800 guise (not the Honda-Davidson CVO Rune, but an actual affordable regular production model), along with the Magna in the previously anticipated VF800 guise that the sibling Interceptor followed, try and get some of those other Euro/Asian models here (don't tell me the NT700 DeauVille, a mid sized sport tourer, wouldn't sell here. Positive sales from 1988-98 and the resulting cult following of the PC800 back that up)...and kick that sales slacker VTX1800 to the curb. Out here, the only bike that sells fewer units than the VTX1800 is the CB250 Nighthawk, at least the CB's excuse is there's never any on the showroom floor. There's always an 1800 or three lingering on the showroom floor though.

You know...return some of that DIVERSITY back into the line-up, instead of a dozen cookie-cutter bikes that all look identical.

[Shooter Bob]

Well, since we're already way off on a tangent, I'll add that Honda is just one of those companies that does whatever the hell Honda wants. They have a history of doing things that really don't make a whole lot of sense and then calling it "innovation." In recent years I have ridden a lot of their bikes and honestly, the only ones that really jingle my spine have been the VTX1800F and the 919. They just seem to cross the line when producing their bikes making them look more like they were efficient to produce as opposed to being an exciting addition to the market.

The ST1300 is a classic example of Honda wedging a tandem V-4 motor into a bike that doesn't really benefit from that configuration. The ST1300 would weigh less, be narrower, and not bathe the riders legs in heat had Honda used a more conventional, proven, in-line 4 engine. But noooooooooooooooooo. We're Honda and we have to go to extreme lengths to achieve the same thing others achieve just to be different. Don't get me wrong. It's a great bike. But in my opinion it would be even better in a more coventional layout. Anyone ride the FJR?

And finally, I think we're seeing alot of motorcycle cruiser lines have much longer lives before the model is changed significantly. This gives the aftermarket, (as well as the OEMs), a chance to develop accessories in greater numbers and hence offset the cost of producing them. When it was popular to make several production changes every year, it just wasn't worth the aftermarket's time to develop products. How do you produce wheels for VTX when the bearing sizes change every year, and sometimes in the middle of a production run. It becomes a nightmare for custom builders to deal with. In that regard, I can see why many OEMs are re-packaging existing models over and over. It makes sense.

[pikepass]

Shadow Shack, I gotta agree with you about the Valkyrie. I have several friends that are hanging on to their Valkyrie's. A heavyweight cruiser/tourer that is fun to ride and very versatile. To me an "affordable" Valkyrie would a boon to the Honda marketing program. If the buyers want to "step up" a bit they can buy Gold Wings. The Rune was a good looker, but; not very practical for everyday riding. Damned expensive too.

Pike


Yeah I know....I was just going off on a "parallel tangent" LOL


If I were running things, I'd bring back the Valkyrie in the GL1800 guise (not the Honda-Davidson CVO Rune, but an actual affordable regular production model),
You know...return some of that DIVERSITY back into the line-up, instead of a dozen cookie-cutter bikes that all look identical.

[shoe]

Anyone ride the FJR?


The Velvet Sledgehammer!!

[Shooter Bob]

nyuk nyuk ynuk

[Shadow Shack]

And finally, I think we're seeing alot of motorcycle cruiser lines have much longer lives before the model is changed significantly. This gives the aftermarket, (as well as the OEMs), a chance to develop accessories in greater numbers and hence offset the cost of producing them. When it was popular to make several production changes every year, it just wasn't worth the aftermarket's time to develop products. How do you produce wheels for VTX when the bearing sizes change every year, and sometimes in the middle of a production run. It becomes a nightmare for custom builders to deal with. In that regard, I can see why many OEMs are re-packaging existing models over and over. It makes sense.

Well the Shadow VLX has been around since 1988 and despite a decent aftermarket support out there, there's still items that you should be able to buy you can't buy for it. For example, try asking Progressive for a rear shock and they'll give you the copy/cut/past "Not enough interest to produce one" baloney, which is horsewash when you consider they offer rear shocks for a VT800 Shadow. Has anyone ever actually seen a VT800 Shadow? They only made them in 1988, after which only the engine stuck around for the PC800. I can't begin to fathom how the VT800 draws more interest than 20 years worth of VLX owners.

Still, you make a good point on the longevity. Honda stuck with the same design on the VLX for ten years, and then gave it a facelift and "dumbed it down" by pulling one of the carburetors (anyone remember my remarks about the BUBF Vulcan?). Then they did it again for the new 750 line, but pulling a carburetor wasn't enough.,..they had to further impede performance by adding in the inefficient shaft drive (inefficient for a longitudinally mounted engine anyways). Keep in mind "Performance First" was Honda's motto for a few years when this trend began. If the trend continues, the Rebel will become a fast bike by default.

[Shooter Bob]

It sounds like you may be riding the wrong brand!

It seems to me that each brand finds it's niche and does well with that. While everyone else was making crunched up sportbikes, Kawasaki was making ergonomically attractive sportbikes. Perhaps not as cutting edge as the others on the race track but, between the years 1973 and 1988 you would be foolish to bet against Kawasaki in a top speed contest.

Honda has, for many years produced very generic cruisers that were stylish enough for many people and yet smacked of Wal*Mart styling and packaging. That's fine. A lot of people shop at Wal*Mart.

Suzuki has always been, "track performance first!" above and beyond all! Their uncompromising sportbikes are legend yet their cruisers are among the most butt ugly bikes on the planet.

Yamaha owns the cruiser market right now with bikes that are attractive, totally up for customizing, great performers, and a depth of options second to none.

And I could go on. The right bike exists for everyone these days. Never before have we had so many fine choices right at our finger tips!

[Shadow Shack]

Make no mistake, I'm quite content with my VLX(es). Bought my first one in 1997, new from the dealer, and still ride it the most. Of course mine are the pre-dumbed down versions...the dual carb models which were 3 ponies shy of the first gen 750 Spirit and with the power to weight ratio taken into consideration they are right in league with them. But pulling a carb off the VLX in 99 dropped it down to the Asian VT400 Steed's power, a 4-5 pony loss (for those not in the know, the 400 Steed is a smaller bored 600 Shadow, same exact bike just a smaller bore).

I'm riding the right brand, but that brand is a different brand these days. Then again, I also used to own a BUBF Vulcan, another bike that recieved a similar but more drastic treatment (BUBF minus one carb plus 140 pounds of heavier frame and fenders = 1500 Classic). If that thing didn't have the endless supply of rind I was constantly peeling, I'd probably still own it.

[MeanGene]

The BUBF bike, was popular, for some riders. At that particular time in my life, I was not actively road riding. I would think performance enthusists would have tried to keep it alive as a marketable model. Most manafacturers can build a great bike, but it just seems that this twin, H.D. look-alike, mentality now days is all you see in the dealerships. I personally like the 3 or 4 cylinder motors better for lots of reasons. I finally weakened and bought a twn, but the performance will never equal a 3 or 4-inline cylinder.:D

[Shooter Bob]

I finally weakened and bought a twn, but the performance will never equal a 3 or 4-inline cylinder.:D

Ever ride a Ducati?

[MeanGene]

Probably the ultimate in twin cylinder technology. Yes I am impressed with this twin cylinder engine. I looked for pricing on ducati.com, but did not find. I guess if you have to ask $, you can't afford it. I bet I could get a smile on my face, (8000rpm/5th), riding this bike. Well either a Concours or a ST3 / STS ABS. Maybe I could find a used one I could afford. Now that I have my Mean Streak runing so good, (F.I. problem fixed), decided to buy new tires, riding a lot more lately. My Meany is serving me well and I am "loving-it".
Been riding 100 miles a night after work, just having fun. Love to just ride and forget my problems. When I am riding, don't think about nothing but riding.:D

[Shadow Shack]

I would think performance enthusists would have tried to keep it alive as a marketable model. Most manafacturers can build a great bike, but it just seems that this twin, H.D. look-alike, mentality now days is all you see in the dealerships.

In 1996, Kawi began to experiment witht he BUBF. They added valanced fenders and if memory serves me, lowered the bike an inch or two. And the rear cylinder still carried the BUBF right to left crossover headpipe. This 1500C model was very short lived though, as Kawi was quick to revamp the entire bike the same year. The revamp included a beefier longer and lower frame, along with moving the rear exhaust port over to the right side for true staggered dual mufflers. A wider front wheel/tire was swapped on, along with a longer rake via a coupe extra degrees in the frame for even more wheelbase. Chrome laced wheels replaced the lighter 7 spoke aluminum rims, and like the front the rear wheel recieved a wider hoop as well. All in all, 90 pounds of dry weight was added in (just looked it up agian, I was wrong in my earlier statement of an extra 140lbs).

Now that Kawi had a heavier and more stylish bike that echoed the classic American style (ready to compete with Honda's wildly successful 1100 ACE), they did the unthinkable and made it perform more like a classic American bike: they pulled one of the carburetors to further impede the performance.

Yep, they took a hot rod and added more weight, created more resistance (via wider tires and wind catching valanced fenders), and restricted the breathing. The BUBF was in production for two more years, ceasing in 1998. The sad fact is that the market demanded the better looking style despite the slow and sloppy performance.

When I sold my BUBF, it was on consignment at a dealer lot. It sat for three months without a bite, despite lowering the price (below KBB) and offering $100 bonuses to the sales staff to move it. Byt his time the new 99 Blue Book came out and I was asked by the sales staff to lower the price once more to reflect the new guide. That was when I got tired of not having a second bike to ride, so I traded it title for title for a 95 Shadow VLX they had (which became my first chopper shortly after).
_________________________________________________

Ever ride a Ducati?

Or better yet, at least in the cruiser spectrum anyways...how about the Hyosung/UM 650 Avitar/Aquila? {speaking of which, howzabout a review of that bad boy someday?} Think SV650 motor in a V-Rod-esque cruiser package. Sporting a belt drive, 200 series rear tire, triple disc brakes, and inverted forks...it's all the sportbike anyone would ever need in a cruiser. Frankly I'm surprised more metrics aren't following suit. I've heard rumors that the EX500 will be canned as it is pretty close to the 650 Ninja. If that were so, the sibling 500 Vulcan might not be too far behind (now there's a spirited ride too). It would seem logical for Kawi to belt out a parallel cruiser to the 650 Ninja/Versys. I'm thinking ZL650 Eliminator...yummy!

[jhampshire]

I have an H-D along with three metrics. I love them all, but I will say this. I was a happy H-D owner until summer 07 when I bought a 1981 Seca 750 from my dad. This thing is FUN to ride in a way the H-D is not. Next came a Concours which is my favorite even though it has many miles on it. The H-D will probably be leaving the garage in the spring. Having said that, there is nothing that beats the build quality on the modern Harley. I have had zero problems with the Harley and I can service it myself. As far as prices go, check the MSRP on H-D and you will find they are not that much more than comparable metrics. The cost of ownership is about the same as any bike. Some dealers really load them with chrome though. Next item: service. Break down in Iowa or New Mexico on a Moto Guzzi. Your going to finish your vacation on a bus! BTW my least favorite part of owning a H-D is OTHER OWNERS. There are some real posers out there who make me sick. Look past the glitz though and you will find some really fine Harleys out there. 20" spinner rims on a Yukon doesn't mean GMC makes bad trucks.

[thebighop]

Man, you are so right on that jhampshire.
I have had my share of HD's over the years, and have rode all over America on them, and one thing is for sure, you could always find a dealer that would come and haul yer ass back to the shop for repairs if ya needed them...at a premium price unfortunately, but they were around.
I started riding Yamaha's back in 83, and had I broke down somewhere like Horse Breath , Montana I would have been SOL, not to mention that I probably would have had to drink in a hotel room (if they'd let me have one) because all the bars were full of HD riders, and they wouldn't let me in, at least not without calling me out first....And then, I still had to find a dealer somewhere in a neighboring state to agree to come and get the bike and ship it back for repairs....
Today that's not the case. There are many more dealers around and even in places like Horse Breath you can get repairs now...
Plus I have to admit that the metric companies may be a little brighter when it comes to business...
They understand that a lot of guys in the north don't want to sit still in the winter months, so they have snowmobiles to augment their sales during our down months, and as a result, they don't need to gouge the motorcycle riders to make up for the loss of sales during the winter...
But overall, my attitude is...Ride what YOU like and not what some corporate Bozo tells you that you want. All that counts is that you have your knees in the breeze...

[quietguy]

I began riding scoots back in the early 60s, when Triumph, BSA, HD and a few other "big boys" ruled the roost. Honda was just then beginning to market their bikes stateside.

My first bike was a '64 Honda Scout (better known as the Honda 50).. and later Honda fired up the motorcycle market place with their, "You meet the nicest people on a Honda.." ads.

Since then, with one 18 year break, I've ridden and owned many different bikes. Including an '07 Softail Custom. All were fun, each had their high and low points, and most had some very endearing qualities.

I now have the new '08 Star Raider S... and I have to say, it's on top of my list of favorites in most all categories. Sadly, sprained my knee and tore some ligaments last Wednesday so I'll not be riding for a few weeks:(

I agree with Bob's statement back in April... doesn't matter what a person rides as long as he/she enjoys the journey on those two wheels.

Lennie

[michaellee32084]

I think I'll keep my 1200 Sportster AND Road Star. The Sportster never ceases to give me a grin when tearing up the highways and by-ways.

Pike
'03 Midnight Star
'99 1200C
'58-'07 XLR Clone (in the works) :D




There was a time when I felt there were HD's and nothing else. With what I know about bikes now, I can't see myself ever owing a HOG. Even if my bro-in-law GAVE me one of his, I'd just sell it and get me another metric![/QUOTE]
Yep, I had this 77 xlch 1000 sporty .It was areal pretty bike.Black with gold pin striping.all stock except for the pipes.I had a lot of character.It was fun to ride on the street.On the highway not so much.In fact instead of feeling like tearing up the highway.It seemed more like the other way around

[osun061]

Over the years I have had many bikes, Yamaha was my first . My owned list would include Honda, Yamaha , Suzuki, Harley Davidson,Kawasaki, Sach and even Vespa if that counts . A little bit of everything but mostly dirt bikes .
Only had two Lemon Vehicles in my life and both were in the 70's . A Harley Davidson in 1971 and a Chevrolet p/u in 1972 . Swore I'd never buy another one as long as I lived!
But they got better in the 90's and I gave them another try . I think competition and some other influences caused them both to make better products .

[MeanGene]

I say ride what you like and or can afford. I bought my last Kawasaki used and not just because it was Kawasaki. Althrough I used to have a 1976 Kawasaki LTD900 I really liked. To me, the engineering of the 4 cylinder metric engine has always been interesting.
When I looked at the "split-rod" in the HD twin, I seen weakness, not that I don't like HD's, but I like performance,balance,smoothness,quick acceleration, and all that comes with multi cylinder, multi pin crank, only an advanced designed engine can give.

[Shadow Shack]

This will come as a surprise to the "dinosaur tech" camp, but back when the TC-88 was a relatively new design it was blowing away the compatible "advanced design" engines.

Namely, the 1500 Vulcan Classic and the LC1500 Intruder. Both of which had more than two valves per cylinder, one had DOHC and liquid cooling, the other had the benefit of a dual pin crank (and if memory serves me, an extra carburetor). Both metrics even had slight displacement advantages over the 1450cc TC. Stacked up against the Electra Glide Ultra Classic, Harley's heaviest bike, both had a significant weight advantage. Yet at up to 200 pounds more, the Ultra out-accelerated both advanced metrics on the quarter mile in more than one published comparo, including the ad-free Motorcycle Consumer News.