shabby treatment by local shop

[admin]

i am a returnee to riding after 13 years hauling children around. i purchase a suzuki 800 marauder from a private buyer with intentions of purchasing a new bigger bike after i get my feet back under me. well. yesterday i went to my local shop for some minor service work. the first question the service mgr(?) asked was if i had purchased with them. i explained that i bought used from an individual and asked "what did it matter"? he shrugged and told me that it would be 4 to 6 weeks before he could get to it(with an attitude)!! i replied that they would never see my money again. i might add that since i purchased my bike, i purchased everything i could with them, helmets, keys, etc....tony a. lake charles, la.
Posted by: tbone547 on Nov 1, 06 10:19:05 am

[admin]

I wouldn't get too upset over it. You may have caught someone having a bad day. It seems this shop is most convenient to where you live and you'll probably find yourself needing something there before long. Perhaps you can speak with the owner or manager and try to resolve the situation. It will help you, the dealership, and anyone else who happens to stop by there in the future. It's easy to get angry. I totally understand that. But there is a lot more to gain by resolving your differences with the right person over there.

Good luck to you and your new bike! Many happy miles await!
Posted by: Shooter Bob on Nov 1, 06 11:27:36 am

[admin]

I wouldn't go to them for service if they have double standards for their customers right up front. Perhaps the owner is not aware that their service department is not looking to bring new customers on board. Service managers like that typically do not stay in that position a long time once they whittle the work load down to 5 steady customers.
Posted by: Rowdrunner on Nov 1, 06 1:35:30 pm

[admin]

send a letter to the manufacturer. The dealership might not care about you but he will care about his bike allotments.
Posted by: Revelstoker on Jan 21, 07 12:10:44 am

[admin]

Ya that happen to me in 2005. Had a 1977 xs650 was stored for 6 years got the bug to get back out there and ride rode for 3 weeks then the bike got a bad whine in the engine.Took it to this dealer and asked him about it.It was like I was bring the plage into his shop didn,t want anything to do with it.He screwed up tho if he was any kind of dealer he wound of tryed to get me interested in a new bike.I was pissed went to a shop 25 miles from there saw this black 2005 v-star 650 on show room floor.The dealer was super nice said you can take her home to day.One call to the bank and set me up with insuranceand was on my way. Gary
Posted by: v-starrider on Mar 14, 07 11:41:23 am

[admin]

Having worked at dealerships for 8 years, I concur with your dealer that a '77 XS650 with an engine noise is "the plague."

Here you have a bike worth all of $300 and it's going to take way more than that to fix it. The problem is then compounded by the difficulty in getting parts for it, and a potential customer who now thinks that a $1000 bill to fix an engine is a complete rip off even though the service department is losing money on the deal. Old bikes are bad news all the way around for dealerships.

Service departments typically lose money and most dealers would gladly close them and just sell bikes. It is extremely difficult to run a profitable service department without charging outrageous prices for everything.

I don't blame the first dealer for turning away your XS650. He could have been more polite, but has obviously been stung several times in the past by people bringing in old, low dollar bikes with big problems.

When I worked in service, we would only take an old, non-running bike in for service if the guy gave us a $500 deposit with it and understood that it could easily cost more to fix the bike. It was a sad reality that we had to impose in order to survive. The storage area of the shop was filled with old bikes that people brought in, got an estimate on, and then abandoned without paying anything for the work that had been done. We eventually filed the paperwork to assume ownership of these bikes, but what good is a $300 bike in need of $1000 worth of repairs? It was a losing proposition all the way around.

I know that some service departments give the impression they are trying to take advantage of the consumer, but try to remember, on their best days, most service departments are still losing money and good will only goes so far towards paying the bills.

You first dealer could have been more polite, and had you talked with a salesperson instead of a service dept guy, you would have gotten a different treatment. I know it sucks to have a bad experience, but try to understand that there is a lot more going on behind the scenes. You probably just caught the guy in a bad moment.
Posted by: Shooter Bob on Mar 15, 07 6:48:49 am

[admin]

thank you Shooter Bob.
Posted by: shoe on Mar 15, 07 12:43:19 pm

[v-starBiker]

You know I always hated my dealer but once I got to know him he was a great guy.I made this post as v-starrider awhile back ,you were right Shooter Bob finally got rid of the 77 xs650 to a guy who restores them he was real happy to get it as I had kept it in mint condition at lest for the paint.He said he would have it up and running in no time proably going to sell it for a good price after hes done I don't care just glad to get it out of my garage

[Shooter Bob]

Cool. I love a happy ending!

[Greywolf]

No matter what you ride or how old your ride is as a customer you should expect and accept nothing less than good service. I realize there are conditions that cause problems in servicing but customers can be reasoned with when spoken to and treated respectfully. Even if you can't help a customer a smile and friendly conversation will bring them back. It's your money you are wanting to spend in there bussiness so you should have it your way

[Dude]

When I got my bike back from the dealer after the 1000 mile service and said attempt to fix the engine jerking problem I found two screws loose.
Good thing I did or I would be paying for the part that fell off.

It's my understanding that the government allowed the motorcycle manufactures to patent their bike parts so the aftermarket couldn't compete so we are being screwed by the bike manufactures on parts. You can thank the politicians for letting this bunch have sloppy seconds. A local motorcycle mechanic said people bring in bikes to get them fixed and when they find out what it's gonna cost they don't even come back and get the bike. I had the 1999 Kawasaki Vulcan 1500 with the plastic oil pump gear. The bike had 14,000 miles on it. The gaskets and gear was so expensive I didn't want to fix it. Also the fuel lines and radiator hoses were getting old. I tried to replace the fuel line with bulk hose but the bike was designed to make this difficult so I got rid of it and bought a new bike. Every day these people are thinking of more ways to screw us.

You can find motorcycle mechanics around with their own business. If you are lucky you will find a honest one but you still have to pay the outrageous prices for the parts.

It's best if you buy tools and get your hands dirty or get rid of the bike. I'm involved in the automotive industry and many of the mechanics are out and out trash/crooks. Then there are the customers that think they are being cheated when they are not. You would not believe some of the stuff I've seen. Nothing unusual about that. A large percentage of the world's population is this way and in every walk of life. When I was a kid motorcycle parts were not expensive. This country is going to hades fast. It's nothing like it was back then. One day it will burst open like a big boil. It allmost did afer the stock market crash in 1929. blab blab blab...............

[v-starBiker]

Everybody wants a piece of the pie. You make more money they raise the price of things. Its all about the rich get richer and poor gets poorer. Just something you have to live with if you let it get to you it will drive you crazy. Gas prices ,food ,water , jobs and motorcycle service just enjoy life before you know it its over.

[Dude]

lucky for me I found the two loose screws on my vstar 1300 tourer. The Yamaha shop's mechanic was running in circles that day. If this part fell off and was lost I'm sure this dealer would offer to sell me one.

Check all the screws when you get ur bike out of the shop. better learn how to torque the Axel bolts yourself if you don't want dumped.

[v-starBiker]

Found out the other day the mechanics who work at my dealers shop are Career Tech students a school for the high school kids. And I all ways thought you had to be Yamaha certified trained. Guess they have to start some where. So if the mechanics get $75.00 a hour I wonder if the kids get payed or are just being paid minimum wage because they are from school. Cheap labor

[ken]

No matter what you ride or how old your ride is as a customer you should expect and accept nothing less than good service. I realize there are conditions that cause problems in servicing but customers can be reasoned with when spoken to and treated respectfully. Even if you can't help a customer a smile and friendly conversation will bring them back. It's your money you are wanting to spend in there bussiness so you should have it your way
Amen Greywolf. When was the last time we heard them tell us they made a mistake & offer to make it good! Hey we changed your oil & filter even tho you told us not to cause you did it yourself yesterday, so we're sorry & you can either bring it next time for free or we'll knock your service charge down.
Customers do not deserve to be treated like it's their fault the service screwed up,:mad:

[barry1482]

That's what I look for in a dealership. Screw me once shame on you, screw me twice shame on me! I don't care what you are selling me, I expect a certain level of service. I have dealerships that I will not deal with because their service sucks. I have even probably paid a little more by going to someone that understands the nature of customer service, but when I have a problem I can depend on them to treat me with respect, even if they don't get it fixed the first time.

[shoe]

Found out the other day the mechanics who work at my dealers shop are Career Tech students a school for the high school kids. And I all ways thought you had to be Yamaha certified trained. Guess they have to start some where. So if the mechanics get $75.00 a hour I wonder if the kids get payed or are just being paid minimum wage because they are from school. Cheap labor

School can only teach a new wrench the basic terms,, it takes years near a seasoned wrench to make trustworthy diagnosis. When a mechanic learns enough to generate more labor hours billed than their salary demands, they can collect a percentage of the flat rate labor they generate at many shops. Trust me,,,no mechanic is getting $75 an hour. I was on 40% flat rate from day one and nearly starved to death for a few years, 15 years later I could pay my bills, 30 years later, I can still JUST pay my bills. Tip your mechanics when your bike is right. We don't do this for the money, we do it for pride and love of motorcycles.

[MeanGene]

I bought an old Yamaha XS750 Special back in 1996 and made a project out of it. Well many $$$$ & hrs later, part buying on ebay and local high dealer $$ I soon had more in the thing then it's worth. If I would have had to pay the going rate of $65/hr to repair this old bike it would have been even worse. Unless you are a do-it-yourselfer and enjoy working on old bikes for a "hobby", leave them alone and buy a new one. They can be fun to tinker with buy have at least one good one you can ride!

[v-starBiker]

School can only teach a new wrench the basic terms,, it takes years near a seasoned wrench to make trustworthy diagnosis. When a mechanic learns enough to generate more labor hours billed than their salary demands, they can collect a percentage of the flat rate labor they generate at many shops. Trust me,,,no mechanic is getting $75 an hour. I was on 40% flat rate from day one and nearly starved to death for a few years, 15 years later I could pay my bills, 30 years later, I can still JUST pay my bills. Tip your mechanics when your bike is right. We don't do this for the money, we do it for pride and love of motorcycles.
I wasn't worry about what the mechanic is making worry about the quality of work being done on the bike.

[shoe]

I wasn't worry about what the mechanic is making worry about the quality of work being done on the bike.

When work is done in a service dept, it must pass the final inspection of the service mgr. or shop owner. It should all be performed to the same level of competence. If my apprentice or myself does the work,, you shouldn't be able to tell who did it as I'm involved throughout.

[ken]

After laying my bike down on some gravel on a road, insurance check came. I went to shop. Service manager says it'll take 2 weeks. I said, "really?"
Well a little more or less, we ordered the parts already. We had to order from all kind of different places all over. I said, huh, imagine that! (Yamaha doesn't have a centrally located warehouse/parts thingy place?)

4 weeks & 4 days later, I gave up & called the service manager.
"Well, the last part we needed came in last Thursday, unfortunately, the mechanic that was putting it together took off for a week that day, he'll be back next Thursday." I said, "okay I'll be waiting to hear from you."

Friday at noon I called the service manager. "He's workinon it right- wait let me check on that- well Mr Ken you know he just got back yesterday & he's getting his feet wet again. (?) I'll get him on it and you should have it out tomorrow, Saturday."

Saturday I called service manager at noon & asked was I going to be able to ride this weekend. "Well I got him on it & I'm pushing him as hard as I can to get you out.
3:30 pm "Mr. Ken, somehow or another, we got the wrong part, we didn't order the wrong part, the part # is right they just sent the wrong floorboard. Here's what I'll do, since we're closed on Monday, the first I'll be able to order it from Yamaha will be Tuesday morning, I'll get them to overnight it & I'll have you out by Wednesday."

Unless the mechanic gets sick, or someone in his family passes, or Yamaha has to order a freakin floorboard from Japan who has to order one made in China. Or the rats get into it and chew the wires/seat.

Am I their female dog? I guess so. You MEAN to TELL me, they couldn't take a floorboard out of one of the unassembled bikes of the same model in the back? In other words, this mechanic didn't even look at my bike or the part for 3 days.
This is not the first time, not the first shop, and I ain't the only one getting it.
It would be comic if I weren't missing some of the greatest riding weather we have around here. It would be comic if I didn't have enough common sense to realize they were lying form the start.

Thanks for letting me vent!

[Shooter Bob]

Unfortunately, this seems to be a trend in most service businesses these days. Younger people don't want to work with their hands unless it involves text messaging their BFFL and they can somehow get paid for doing nothing. There is a growing need for skilled mechanics that actually know how to fix things and take their job seriously. I feel your pain man. I wish it was different, and doesn't look like it's going to be getting better any time soon.

[pikepass]

Just to throw in a little twist here; two weeks ago I went to two Yamaha dealers to buy a windshield mounting bracket (the old one broke). The first one didn't want to talk to me. The second not only sold me the mounting bracket but told me to bring my bike in the next day and they would install it for me for 1/2 hr labor charge. Being old and lazy I took it in the next day and they installed it for FREE! Guess it pays to shop around.

Pike

[shoe]

Just to throw in a little twist here; two weeks ago I went to two Yamaha dealers to buy a windshield mounting bracket (the old one broke). The first one didn't want to talk to me. The second not only sold me the mounting bracket but told me to bring my bike in the next day and they would install it for me for 1/2 hr labor charge. Being old and lazy I took it in the next day and they installed it for FREE! Guess it pays to shop around.

Pike

exactly! if a shop doesn't want anymore work, cool,, go somewhere else, they may be just hungry enough to earn a customer .

[Shadow Shack]

There is a growing need for skilled mechanics that actually know how to fix things and take their job seriously.

A growing need fed by dealerships that pay minimum wage to their techs. C'mon, they charge $70-100 an hour for labor (and some even pad the jobs by an extra hour), I think they can afford a better wage than $5.75/hr for skilled labor. Like one respondant said in an MCN tech survey, "McDonald's pays more, and they don't require you to furnish $5000 worth of tools."

And that same premise extends beyond the service bays, into the parts counter and onto the sales floor (as is evident by Ken's experience above with parts acquisition). On that note, here's something I just posted:

http://www.roadbikemag.com/forum/showthread.php?p=5591#post5591

That same place has performed the same lackluster service in the past with me. I'd order something (and out here items must be paid in full prior to ordering) and six to eight weeks later still no goods. One time they even wanted to knock me for shipping and handling, above and beyond the cost of the part (which already covers that).

Honestly, I don't know why I even went back.

[shoe]

a good mechanic shouldn't be on an hourly wage, but a base and commision. As a young man, I earned 50%, overhead and insurance costs have risen, but I can still get 30% from some shops. Weighing the cost of an education against a couple of years apprenticeship, it's a pretty fair trade for a skill that can support me almost anywhere I go.

Here is the rub,, my first flat rate job was 1982 at a Suzuki dealership at $35 labor rate,,, now at 30% of a $75 flat rate,, I'm making about $5 an hour more. not much of a cost of living increase is it? you get out what you put in, my experience pays me more via increased productivity.

The race to the chapest what-ever it is isn't just at WalMart, keep buying your "cheapest price ever" parts online, keep ordering your "cheapest bikes ever" bikes online, keep de-valuing what I do and what I teach my apprentice and you'll have what we have in every other imported goods market, no service, no support and no one to make it work for you. Think of it as a disposable lighter versus a Zippo.

If I have a conversation with you on the phone about the parts you bought, usually online, then have a person to talk to when you get here to fill out a work order, then safely store your bike, what line item charge on your workorder should it be? It still takes me an hour and often more, should I not get paid for it?

I don't want or need the parts you want, why shouldn't I be paid in advance for the order? Most special order parts aren't required maintenance, they are indulgences to our ego. I'm not making or selling heart-valves for orphans :rolleyes:

When you buy parts online or at dealer cost and below, is there free shipping?

Do you REALLY THINK that the labor rate charged to you is the amount of labor time it took to complete your service?

I'll get back off my toolbox (holding under a grand worth of tools) and go back to work now. Thanks for listening.

[JoeSikspak]

I think all too often we piss and moan about bad service, and rarely applaud good service. Most of the time we take for granted the good service we get. The mechanic rarely speaks to the customer, and how many times do you think our thanks is passed on to him by the service manager?

Earlier this year I needed a front tire on my Vegas, and as usual I noticed it only two days before a major ride. Well, the closest Victory dealer is an hour and a half away and when you work 10-12 hrs a day, that's not an option. I stopped in the local Kawasaki dealer, and they got the tire the next day and two guys stayed late to install it on a Friday. Granted, the folks at the shop knew me from earlier purchases, but the fact that they stepped up and covered me, on a bike that I bought from someone else was awesome. I bought both the guys a beer and thank them every time I'm in the shop.
Sometimes you have to be a good customer too.

[Shadow Shack]

Shoe raises some good points. However, not all places are run as he described...

The dealership I referenced with my link has a long history of customer mis-service (please read it before commenting on the rest of this post). I'll address each of Shoe's points with regards to this dealership, and it's not a stand-alone dealer as they own 5 or 6 dealerships here:


1> a good mechanic shouldn't be on an hourly wage, but a base and commision.

I whole heartedly agree. Sadly that's not the case anymore. The dealer I refer to was once a family owned place that was bought out by the Arizona Motorsports Group (google up some AZ based MC forums, it won't take long to find negative comments about AMG. It will be fruitless trying to find a positive comment about them though). Once the corporation established themselves, the lead tech there (a guy I'd been taking my bikes to for years), in the course of nine months, had his wage reduced from $30/hr to $7/hour and lost his entire commission as well. He ended up opening his own repair shop. Now if he had certifications (which he did) to repair Hondas, Kawasakis, Suzukis, and Yamahas...one can only imagine what experience and certifications that the new lead tech that got promoted from lot boy has. I can also assure you that said repalcement isn't earning the same stellar $7/hour that the former lead tech was.


2> The race to the cheapest what-ever it is isn't just at WalMart, keep de-valuing what the MC dealers do and you'll have no service, no support and no one to make it work for you.

Again, no arguments there. I have no problem buying locally from a shop, I've done so many times inthe past and have made numerous efforts to do so with this laughing stock of a dealership I refer to.

But it has to be a two way street. They have to be able to answer my questions while displaying some semblence of knowledge in the topic. The dealer I referred to above falls short in the knowledge department. In fact the guy couldn't even be bothered to ask myself or another employee or his boss about my part request...instead of looking it up or asking how to lookit up, he just rumages around the counter area and says the part I need is not in stock. WalMart also didn't have the part I needed, but after referencing the part via the book hanging off the rack and actually looking at the corresponding part number onthe shelf I was able to ascertain with 100% accuracy that the part was out of stock, rather than make an ignorant statement with nothing to back it up.

In short, accepting money without providing any service is only legal in regulated gaming houses. And somehow corporate owned motorcycle dealerships have found a loophole in that federal law.


3> If I have a conversation with you on the phone about the parts you bought... ... ...what line item charge on your workorder should it be? It still takes me an hour and often more, should I not get paid for it?

If you have a phone conversation with this dealership the answers will come off like a chatty-Cathy doll pulling her own string: "I dunno." "I dunno." "You'll have to come in and speak to the manager about that." "I dunno."

And if they could, they'd find a way to charge you for that service. Let's hope & pray that they don't opt for 1-900 customer service numbers.


4>I don't want or need the parts you want, why shouldn't I be paid in advance for the order?

Again, I have no problem with that. But here's a scenario that make it a problem, another tale from the same dealership:

I went in to buy/order a front sprocket, and paid the price in full. The guy I spoke with said to call back in two weeks, as that's about how long they expect it to take. I called back in two weeks and dealt with a different guy (first guy was no longer there), no part. Called back in two more weeks and dealt with yet another different guy, as the guy that replaced the first guy was no longer there. Still no part. Called back two weeks after that one and dealt with a gal who replaced the guy that replaced the guy who relaced first guy. Still no part. Called back in yet two more weeks and dealt with, you guessed it --- yet another different guy who replaced the gal that replaced the guy that replaced the other guy that replaced the first guy. Still no part. So I finally went there in person just to see what the &$%! was going on. Said new guy that replaced the gal that replaced the guy that replaced the guy who replaced the first guy starts rumaging around, checking the computer, back room, front room; oh, wait --- here it is...according to the invoice it looks like it arrived...7½ weeks ago.

Fortunately I had more than one bike to ride during that time, or I could have made a bigger issue out of it than they already made it into (such as requesting a new battery to replace the one that died while waiting eight weeks for the sprocket). Like I said I have no problem paying up front and in full, but when they dilly-dally around on the delivery it's my money tied up in their farcical follies, and that in itself creates bigger problems. Seriously, as a private business owner...how many refunds would you be issuing if you adopted that practice of monetary tie-ups? Followed by how many extra parts you don't need piling up? I could have just as easily requested a refund four weeks sooner while unbeknownst to them that sprocket continued to collect dust.


5> When you buy parts online or at dealer cost and below, is there free shipping?

Keep in mind I have no problem paying S/H as long as the item is shipped to my house. When a dealer orders a part, isn't shipping already figured into the retail price? When I go to Auto Zone for an oil filter it isn't marked "$4.99 + S/H". When I order chicken parmesean at Olive Garden the menu doesn't say "$12.95 + S/H". The OEM sprockets hanging on the dealership shelves aren't marked "$21.95 + S/H". So why should I have to pay the same $21.95 plus S/H to order the same sprocket if it's not on the shelf? Is it common business practice to waive S/H if an item is in stock? That being the case why do they add a "freight charge" on their bikes sold off the showroom floor? These were the questions I poised to the original guy that ordered my sprocket above when he quoted me a price and then added S/H onto it.

It's called double dipping, and it ain't right.


6>Do you REALLY THINK that the labor rate charged to you is the amount of labor time it took to complete your service?

No I don't, I've known that former lead tech/current private shop owner for quite a while to know that. But here's yet another tale from said dealership. When they took over, an 8K service for my bike (of which I have more than one of, same model/different year) suddenly leapt from a 3 hour job to a 4 hour job. The old service writer (from when the place was family owned) always looked up the jobs in a Honda book. The new service writer looked it up in an Arizona Motorsports Group book. In other words, AMG is padding the job by even more.
__________________________________________________ _______________

Now Shoe...please don't think that I'm attempting to compare your business with what I've described above (which is sadly becoming the dealership norm these days, based on what I keep reading at various MC forums). But suffice to say, being a private business owner...if you were to ever adopt these business practices would you be able to stay in business?

Frankly I can't fathom how the corporate owned dealers can. Moreso I can't even begin to comprehend how they can be successful enough to continue buying out the other remaining privately owned dealers. I do understand the principle of being able to screw everyone over once and making bucketloads of money for quite some time, but a motorcycle eventually needs extra attention after the sale so the continued practice of bending the customer over just doesn't add up.

And it's hard to be a good customer when you deal with that level of ineptness each time. I take that back, I end up becoming someone else's good customer.

[Shadow Shack]

P.S. never mind the Google search for AZ based forums for AMG reports. Just google Arizona Motorsports Group:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Arizona+Motorsports+Group

#3 on the list of links? "If your looking at getting parts, can't speak for the rest of the company, then I suggest that you get settled for the long haul. And dissapointment. "

#5? Starts right off with "I agree, Arizona Motorsports Group dealers suck."


See, it's not just me...